you get some decent growth, that is. >> one more thing, larry, the deductions are the greatest benefit at the highest tax rates. so therefore limiting the deductions at the highest rate gives you the greatest base and revenue -- >> all true, art. but here's the thing. he has taken off the table capital gains, dividends, interest deductibility, the mortgage interest deduction -- >> no, he hasn't. he has not. jared, he's said everything is on the table. jared, my friend, when asked this question, besides the specifics of the dollar limit, he has said everything is on the table. come on. that's what he said. >> he can't do that without raising taxes on middle class people. >> yes, you can. >> it's the same problem with your itemized deductions. unless you set those itemized deductions way higher than he has set so far, you're going to ding the middle class. >> how about state and local income taxes? that's another run right there. there are so many, jared. it's just simpson/bowles.